Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 1958
startup screen blocks use of other apps, making startup time much worse
Last modified: 2004-03-24 09:24:23 UTC
There is an existing issue recorded about startup time. I think the startup time of 638c is excessive also, however I can live with that for now. What really annoys me is that the splash logo insists on remaining raised, blocking visibility to other applications until the app window appears. Please allow this window to be lowered, iconified, or deactivated. With this, other tasks can be done while waiting. I use Redhat 7.0/7.1 with KDE.
Reassigned to Falko.
This issue is re-assigned to Christian Jansen for further evaluation.
*** Issue 2088 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 2172 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
This is not an enhancement, it is a bug, because it blocks the use of all other applications for up to a minute. Try starting OO up on a PIII700 laptop (where the splash screen takes up 1/4 of the screen, right in the middle) and you'll see what I mean- starting up OO means walking away from the machine because you can't use anything else except the clock in the upper right-hand corner for 45-60 seconds. It will be very difficult to fix the startup time, but it would be extremely trivial to fix the splash screen problem. It doesn't need to be made a 'real' window (though that would be nice). It merely needs to be made to fall behind other windows, which (at least on X) is just a matter of a couple simple calls.
Thanks for your issue, but we have to fix this issue later,because fact that it is now a little bit too late to make any changes. O.oo 1.0 is will be released in a few weeks.
Now that 1.0 is basically out the door, I'm reopening this for immediate consideration for the next oo release. My reasons: (1) the issue is not resolved, so marking it 'resolved' makes little to no sense. [see: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13534 for a discussion of why the use of 'later' is a bad idea; I'm also about to open a bug requesting that this be removed from oo's issuezilla [bug 4338] and that milestones be used instead.] (2) There is already a serious admission that it is a problem in the code. The problem is so severe that there is an option to disable it altogether [see bug 3746]. This suggests that maybe there should be a better solution than a hackish and deeply hidden preference; as it stands every first time user of open office sits and thinks 'how the heck do I make this go away? It's sitting there /forever/...' Having a solution that only works for advanced/power users is a sure sign that it is definitely a problem and definitely needs to be solved for everyone. (3) This is, in my opinion, the most serious usability problem in oo/so. Every single user of open office I've ever talked to (which is a fair number, as I'm extremely involved in the Free Software community) says, without fail, that open office is 'too slow.' Why is it too slow? Because it takes 90+ seconds to start up. Why can every single one of them tell you /exactly/ how long it takes to start up on their system? Because the rest of their system is next-to-useless during oo startup, so they can just sit there and watch the clock, which tells them exactly how many seconds the splash screen sat there and blocked everything. This is not a request to fix the slow start time- that's a big problem beyond the scope of this bug. It /is/ a request to make the slow start a /lot/ less painful for the user. I've taken the liberty of moving this to P1 because a component of bug priority is the marketing and user implications of a bug; attempting to sell a corporate customer an office suite that makes the rest of a system unusable on startup is a definite difficulty, just as it is difficult to recruit a developer community to a product viewed as 'bloatware that doesn't play nice with the rest of my system'. To put it another (and a final) way: this is the /very/ first impression a user or customer sees, and the only one a customer sees for a long time- why is it allowed to be this bad?
On Linux, the splash screens should NOT be sticky, I have multiple desktop areas as most Linux users do and it is very rude to have that splash screen everywhere. Let me state this again, sticky splash screen is a BIG no, I would make that a release blocker. OpenOffice should do like Mozilla and simply have the splash screen disabled by default on Unix systems. It seems that people from the Windows world are not very multi-tasking yet so they like that stuff, but I feel that a less intrusive one would be more appropriate, maybe just in the taskbar (on windows). Maybe even having a "Dont ever show me again" button onto it would be nice, like for the "startup tips".
The gnome splash screen disapears when you click on it. I find that very convenient.
Every description of this splash screen indicates that it is an override-redirect window. Override-redirect disables window manager control of the window and is usually only appropriate when a pointer and keyboard grab is appropriate (e.g., menus) or for tooltips. Splash screens should use the appropriate hint from: http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/wm-spec/x187.html _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH Other window manager hints may also be appropriate. GNOME, KDE, and others have standardized on this window manager hint specification.
Hi. I'm kind of new here, so if I make some mistakes, please fell free to let me know. I didn't want to even try to change any settings, just in case I wasn't supposed to. I've been thinking about this problem for quite a while. Needless to say, it is very annoying. Considering how bloated OOo is, wouldn't it be wise to just get rid of the entire splash screen and the code associated with it? It could save everybody much time. This way, nobody has to find out the hard way that they can set logo=0. There is so little benefit to having this splash screen. Everybody who is running it already knows about it, so why force them to see it, or have them pay for it by the amount of resources being used? I equate it with a popup add, but it's worse, because for most people you can't get the focus on to something else. By the way, with lwm, when I checked a while ago, I can switch focus and raise another window. Also, issue 4133 seems to be the same as this one. I hope that helps.
Unfortunately the splash screen needs to stay. Until the startup time is reduced the splash screen provided feedback to the user that they have indeed started the application. Without it, the new user may very well attempt to start the application multiple times before the first window appears.
I totally agree to John. The splash provides feedback. I took a look at OO.o 1.01 (KDE 3.04) and I had no problems. The splash didn't grab the focus and I could continue working with other apps during OO.o launch. Philipp, what is your opinion? I have no problems with the current behavior.
As was already said the window in question is override redirect. This is necessary so all window managers display it without decorations. _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH is a future possibility but currently supported by nothing out there since it was only recently added to the specification.
have met the first WM to support _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH: metacity 2.4.1
I have built in support for that property; now it's up to the WM how it handles splash screens. Metacity handles them like mostly like override redirect, though, with the exception that they are confined to one virtual desktop.
*** Issue 4133 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
closing
*** Issue 13773 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
How is exactly this issue fixed? OpenOffice 1.1 RC starts up faster, that's true, but until it does, the splash screen still takes over all the user's desktops.
As is said it's now up to the window manager to support splash screens in any way it sees fit. We set the splash screen hint if it is supported, whatever the window manager does what it must be right (at least that's the philosophy of window manager designers :-) ). Before we simply created an override redirect window, which tells the WM explicitly "don't touch me".
Thanks for the excellnt eplanation of the current splash screen operation. I have one outstanding question which hasn't been addressed as far as I can tell. Why is it important that the splash screen be rendered without decorations? I cite as an example the Ximian red-carpet and evolution applications. They both have lengthy start up times and splash screens which are rendered with decorations. As a result they can be moved, lowered, iconified, etc. with any window manager. In this manner they serve the purpose and do not impede usage in the process. I'm sure there must be some advantage to removing the decorations, but I can't enumerate them. Please help me out.
Having the splash screen without decorations is a design decision that was made before my time; if you ask me i'd say they are that way because historically they were so in other applications (WordPerfect, MSOffcice, you name it) and originally come from the Windows platform. If you want the splash screen with decorations you should reopen this issue and send it to the user experience group (assign it to lho@openofficeorg who is their lead) as they are supposed to decide what OOo should look like.
I'd like to see this re-opened, as per Philipp's suggestion, but maybe as an enhancement insted of a defect. I, too, feel that taking sole posession of the screen is a bit rude. Going with logo=0 removes the feedback and is a poor option. And searching for a wm that can handle the new hint is an even worse option, especially for non-technical users. So please re-open this and send it to the correct folks. Thanks.
I'd like to reopen this issue and reroute it as suggested. Until the mainstream window managers catch up, it is appropriate to change to decorated windows for the splash screen.
Didn't reassign. Here we go again.
LHO->CJ: Christian, please can you take over.
Hi here are my thoughts. First, I personally want no splash with a decoration. Our main target market is Windows and on UNIX it is GNOME/KDE. On Windows we don't have any trouble regarding the splash, because users can click on it and the splash will be hidden automatically. On UNIX, appart from KDE using QT, this seams to be not possible.I took a look on freedesktop.org to find out what _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH does but there seems to be no real good explanation. QT has a type we need http://doc.trolltech.com/3.2/qsplashscreen.html#details How ever, right now there is no good solution which really helps users. This is why I propose to support a Windows like behaviour ( users can click on the splash and it will be hidden.) on GNOME & KDE when it is possible.
*** Issue 13436 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Please take this task until we can provide a solution which behaves platform conform on Gnome & KDE.
removing fixed status
pl->cj: what should i do with this ? spec is still missing.
cj->pl: From the User Experience side the splash shall not get the focus an their is also no need that the splash has to be always on top. So, please add your technical belongings to the spec. Thanks.
pl->cj: which spec ?
but now :-( pl->cj: which spec ?
.
Since the splash screen is already _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH and user experience seems to not want to change the general behaviour, there's nothing more to do. I'll close this a fixed. again.