Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 6464
2nd line of outline should be allowed to be to the left margin
Last modified: 2013-08-07 14:43:31 UTC
Short version: in an outline the second and succeeding lines should be able to be set to go all the way to the left margin, not only justified under the otuline number or farther to the right. This is mandatory in US Army writing. Long version: here is the email I put the the sw users list. It was confirmed by Caolán McNamara, and Éric Savary said he had put it in as an internal issue. I wanted to throw my 2 cents in, that this is mandatory formatting for Army writing. The email: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [sw-users] Outline Numbering and AR 25-50 I've looked in Openoffice 1.0 and now StarOffice 6.0 and I'm not figuring out how to set an outline the way I need. I'm writing a paper for a US Army class and they need a very specific outline template. If you're interested in the whole regulation it's this (http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r25_50.pdf), Figure 2-1. Let me give you the brief description below for clarity, though. 1. Paragraph 1 is left justified. a. subparagraph a. is one tab stop in (0.25 inch), but the interesting thing is all the text has to go back to the margin. This is the problem. (1) subparagraph (1) is another tab stop in, same thing for more text. (a) All other mini subparagraphs are just two tab stops in. (b) See? b. subparagraph b. 2. The second paragraph. So, the hard thing is getting the text in the paragraphs to go back to the left margin. I've looked around in Tools --> Outline Numbering -- > Position, but the "Space to Text" field doesn't allow negative numbers. Imports of word docs that I've forced to have the correct formatting don't display correctly either. I'm beginning to think openoffice just won't let you bring the second line of an outline to the left margin, left of the # tab in. I have been able to setup custom paragraph styles based on the indent style that have the formatting I need, but if I associate the custom outline style I've created to have the correct number format (1., a., (1), etc.) then the outline style overrides the paragraph format. I've already tried the regular openoffice user's list, which is where I got the idea for styles. Does anyone have any other ideas?
ES->ardiederich: as I told you I already had written a feature for this internaly. ES->BH (if that's in your competence): correponds to idea nr 4010.
BH->ES: If you mean responsibility, my answer is no. Please send it, as usual, to FT, as he is actually the owner of enhancements. Thanks.
ES->FT: so, back to the PM...
Since it has been 2 months since this Enhancement was touched, I wanted to see what the status is. I just don't understand the process. I'm concerned because 1) I need this feature to write US Army formatted documents, and 2) over 1 million other soldiers plus some civilians need to format their documents this way. I realize you can do it by turning off all auto-numbering, but that's hokey. I can then just write the document in vi or notepad. I'd like to use the other features that come with Writer! Thanks for the help.
confirmed and targetted
*** Issue 5171 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 9447 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Sorry, but work for me w/o problen in 1.1.
closed
Still not working. I installed OOo 1.1.0 yesterday, and reverified this morning, based on your input. I think the confusion is "Spacing to text" in the Position tab of the Numbering/Bullets dialog. The minimum number in that box is 0.00, and it has to be negative to do what I want. With the number at zero, then the text of second and succeeding lines are left justified with the outline number. I need the following lines left justified with the left margin. Some of the discussion about this bug has been on the sw mailing list, and not in this database, but if you search for "6464" it should pop up. On the list it was revealed that this bug was targeted for OOo 2.0 (I assume the next release after 1.1), since there had to be GUI changes plus import changes (from MS word docs that have this formatting).
Please add an attachment with a document that contains such formatting (Word dsoc is OK)
Created attachment 10345 [details] MS Word test case and example
Created attachment 10346 [details] Regulation describing army format. See fig 2-1 (p.9) and para 2-4 (p.27).
The MS word doc attached uses the formatting I need. I think I messed up the date format, but for this test case it is accurate. I also attached the Army regulation, AR 25-20, that is for preparing and managing correspondance, which I referenced in the original bug report. Figure 2-1 is very helpful, paragraph 2-4 less so. The paragraph is more general, the figure shows exactly what I need. Assiged back to FT.
Thank you very much for the sample document! FT->AMA: Please open the sample document in word and Writer and have a look to paragraph 2. and 3. As you will see word uses indentation _only_ for the first line where the numbering resodes but goes back to standard aindentation (zero value) for all consequetive lines. Ho w big is the effort to implement such feature? Is it still possible to do in 2.0?
A workaround: set "Spacing to text" to zero and "Minimum space numbering <-> text" to an appropriate value. And a perfect solution is already planned for OOo2.0!
accepted
*** Issue 17789 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
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duplicate *** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 23728 ***
So I can find this later, this is where I was discussing the issue in the Sun forums. I think it was discussed in the OOforums, but I can't find it. original sun thread: http://supportforum.sun.com/staroffice/index.php?t=rview&goto=2414#msg_2414 updated (new) thread: http://supportforum.sun.com/staroffice/index.php?t=msg&goto=2491&rid=0#msg_2491
This issue was duplicated into 23728, which has since been fixed. I tested this issue against 1.9.51, windows xp, but cannot make it work. I've attached the file I tried to make with that version. I've also tried loading in the test case I made in 2003, but very strange things happen (blank numbered paragraphs), as well as the formatting is not correct. The pdf attached shows an example as figure 2-1 (p.9) on how I need to be able to format documents. The whole sad story is below. Short version: A bug I entered got merged into a developer subtask, fixed, built, but it doesn't actually fix my issue. Longer version: I entered a bug, 6464, two years ago about allowing second and succeeding lines in an outline to be able to go all the way back to the left margin. It was duped into 23728, Regard first line indent of a numbered paragraph. This seemed to be part of http://specs.openoffice.org/writer/numbering/NumberingBullet1.sxw, and was fixed and integrated into 680m41. So I downloaded and installed 1.9.51 on Windows XP. However, I still can't make the second and succeeding lines of a numbered outline go to the left margin. Issue 23727 is indeed fixed, "Negative Indent for Number/Bullet", but that is just for the first line indent. That scroll box is in Bullets and Numbering > Position > Indent. To get what I want I'd need to make "Spacing to text" to be negative, and that is still 0 or greater. I think there are a few issues that are basically tasks of 20192, Q-PCD MSInteroperability-18, which defined what to change so MS Office lists could be imported into OOo lists (word and writer). 23727 is "Negative Indent for Number/Bullet", and this indeed works. 23722 is "Specification: Numbering and Bullet Part 1", and I think is the hanger for the whole Part 1 specification.
Created attachment 17686 [details] Attempted to verify fix with this document
Don't specify the indent in the Numeration-Dialog, but in the paragraph style. (First line indent) I'll attach a modified version of "bah.sxw" that should look like expected/desired in 1.9m51 You may as well use outline numbering (so you don't have to take care of the proper enumeration-level yourself), Just set the style of the heading to a regular font size/style The bug with too much enumeration is known and handled in issue 30241 and issue 31607
Created attachment 17691 [details] beginning at second line, every paragraph starts at the left page margin
Thanks for the example file. I see you made a new level_2 paragraph style. I'll see if I can replicate that. I'm not sure if it's this issue or another number, but the word doc test case still doesn't get the correct formatting on import. The second and following lines in a paragraph are incorrectly indented.
The import problem is issue 3232 (in the doc, the spacing is achieved using a "tab" this tab is converted to a spacing (in this case, in a "spacing to text" wich results in a indent of the rest of the lines. - The wording "spacing to text" is bad :-(, if you activate extended tips (<shift>+<F1> does this temporarily) you see what this really means: "The amount of space to leave between the right edge of the numbering symbol and the left edge of the text." (left edge of text in this case is the left margin (since paragraph's indent is set to zero) To fix the layout, take the value found in Format|Numbering bullets (in this case 0.25", the value of the tab-stop) as "first line indent", and the same value as negative number as "before text" (for the second level, you need to double the values, since they have an indent of 0.25" - so you need two paragraph styles for this solution as well)
Set prio to 4.
Because of limited resources we have to re-target this task to the next release. => set to OOo2.0.1
This is getting really frustrating. I logged this bug almost three years ago, with an example of how it should look, and was told that there was an internal Feature Request for it ALREADY. Hundreds of thousands of US Army documents require this formatting annually. I don't know what else I can do to get this understood as an important format layout. I asked about it at first on the SW mailing list, I've logged the bug, I've given examples, I've voted for it, and several other people have reported it. Heck, I even bought a copy of Staroffice, in case it was fixed there. I LIKE the way openoffice does its numbering, except that it's close to impossible to format documents where second and suceeding lines in a numbered list/paragraph are left justified. Writer may have 90% of the features MS Word has, plus whiz-bang cool ones Word doens't have, but until it can bring lines to be left justfied, I still need to use Word 95.
Created attachment 29945 [details] Template for wished numbering
Hi Andrew, I've attached an OOo2.0 file with your preferred numbering style. Do you like it? So OOo2.0 is able to layout numbering like you need and I'm planning to close this issue. What OOo is still lacking, is the perfect import, the mapping between MS Word's numbering and OOo's concept. This is covered by issue #3232.
going to close ancient issues
closing ancient issues