Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 96907
Hybrid PDF editing is a pain
Last modified: 2020-03-13 12:14:07 UTC
This is a follow-up to http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=69636 which has been closed in its original form. The HybridPDF (let's call this format HPDF) extension is finally here, but its behavior makes it virtually unusable for editing HPDF files. In my opinion, in order to make it usable it should: 1) export to HPDF automatically when clicking "save", instead of the current behavior of "save" that is to ask me to save to ODF. Also, when saving an edited HPDF file, there should be no pop-up settings window, but rather the settings should be automatically taken from the "Export to PDF" 1.a) if (1) is too hard to implement, then OOo should at least allow me to save an edited HPDF file back to the original PDF file name by pressing "Export to PDF", which it doesn't: it says "file is in use" and i'm basically forced to go through all kinds of maneuvers to actually get to a modified HPDF saved with its original name 2) after saving a modified HPDF file (as described above), OOo should not complain any more that the file is not saved. This is the cuurent behavior: if i edit a HPDF file and then export it, when closing OOo it sais the file has been modified and it asks me to save it in ODF format, which i don't want to do (i just want ONE file, a HPDF, that i can both distribute to a wide audience and edit) The above two are killers: because of them, trying to use OOo such that i'd need to keep only one file (the HPDF) which is both distributable to a large audience, and fully and easily editable, is a pain beyond what most users (my guesstimate: 90%+) will accept. Finally, a nice-to-have but prolly not so critical 3) i'd like to be able to right-click on a PDF file and have the option to "edit with OpenOffice". i tried to fiddle with the file associations on windows and it seems that adobe considers the PDF extension name some sort of private property, since i really couldn't change nor add a new operation for PDFs. So, if this is too hard, then never mind this idea, but maybe an optional shortcut in the "Send to" menu upon installation of OOo would be a workaround solution. PS There's more blah-blah which essentially says the same thing here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Pdf_Import_Extension
Reassigned.
The filter handling is a framework issue. I think that the complaints make a lot of sense, but the framework currently does not support it. I will take over and come up with a proposal how we can fix that.
One more thing that i "didn't dare" to even suggested until now, seeing how cautiously you approached this HybridPDF thing: If you do fix the problems signaled in this issue, i really think it would be a * M A J O R * feature of OOo to have this HybridPDF functionality out-of-the-box in the standard package instead of having to search like nuts for the extension. As i already mentioned, this feature would actually allow OOo to become a real *transition tool* for truly breaking away from MSO by allowing the PDF documents it would produce to be readable on just about any computer platform out there (large corporations would prolly have some second thoughts before kissing MSO goodbye, but for small and medium-sized companies and organizations this option would finally become truly embraceable).
> have this HybridPDF functionality out-of-the-box This is currently not a good idea. Sun does not develop the extension at the moment and the current beta release 0.3.2 of the pdf import extension has too much bugs to include them into the office.
It looks like the PDF Import thing was more a marketing gag of Sun. They write "PDF Editor" on the StarOffice 9 Package that includes this extension. :-)) And now they have no developer working on it despite the fact that there some open bugs that lead to distorted layout in imported PDFs.
@norbert2: where do you got the information that SUN does not develop the extension at the moment? If you do not have true information about it it would be nice not to spread such rumors. Thank you.
@wg: Feel free to give me the name or initials of a responsible developer so that we can assign the open issues.
@norbert2: if you use the query you can easily see that the most pdf import issues get assigned to akhva. But please do not assign issue to developers by yourself. Please have a look at http://qa.openoffice.org/ooQAReloaded/Docs/QA-Reloaded-HowToStart.html . Thanks.
I'm sorry to have caused so much commotion, but @norbert2 please don't "hijack" the HybridPDF issue and somehow mix it with fixing standard-PDF imports. As far as i'm concerned, importing PDFs is not even a topic, i'm one of those who don't see much benefit from it, if any. What i do believe is *extremely* useful is *strictly* the HybridPDF functionality and format, i.e. the ability to to have *one single copy of a document* which is both editable (in OOo) and distributable to a wide audience as-is (i.e. in HybridPDF format readable in the ubiquitous AcroReader).
> importing PDFs is not even a topic, i'm one of those who don't > see much benefit from it @gyll: For me it is (would be if the bugs would be fixed) a very useful feature. For documentation purposes it is useful to copy out vector-drawings or bitmaps from PDFs to use them in own Writer documents.
FWIW, the link between hybrid pdf import & "plain" pdf import is mainly a usability issue - OOo needs to register for the pdf extension/mimetype, and it would be kind of awkward if in one case the pdf opens (if it has the hybrid content), and in other cases don't. So there's something to say in favor of having either both or none; that said, IMHO even a limited-functionality general-purpose PDF import is better than none (as norbert2 pointed out, for extracting gfx etc.).
@thb: yup, i'm sure there is some usefulness in being able to copy some bits and pieces from PDFs, i was just saying it ain't worth much to me (also, for this specific scenario - which btw i actually do consider the most useful facility when importing plain PDFs - it's not really very important to have a 100% accurate imported layout for as long as you can identify an object and copy it). anywayz, since i'm here, here i go with one more "PR related" suggestion that is really no big deal in terms of implementing it should you guys see some value in it (me, i would even make it checked by default): when exporting to HybridPDF, to have an option in the export-settings dialog that would say "Add OpenOffice.org link page to the PDF document", which option would automatically insert a blank page at the end of the HybridPDF containing just a small footer along the lines of "This document is editable with the OpenOffice.org suite" (this would be a link to the OOo download page, there might also be a nice graphical logo on that line, etc).
I don't understand why the Hybrid-PDF-feature is bound to the PDF Import Extension. The only function of the extension should be to convert PDFs to Draw-Objects which allows to import common PDFs. The Hybrid-PDF-feature does not use such conversion functions since it only opens an embedded ODF. Further on support for Hybrid PDFs - if implemented usable - would be a very useful and nearly unique feature that should work "out of the box". So in my opinion from both, a technical and a usability point of view, there is no sense to keep the Hybrid-PDF-feature bound to the PDF Import Extension.
@norbert2: i totally agree with you, i also see no technical need whatsoever to bind the two together, they're distinct issues, i just don't want to piss anybody off :-), getting this thing done asap it waaaaaaaaaaay too important for OOo imho.
What do the guys in Hamburg think about moving the Hybrid-PDF-feature from to PDF Import Extension into the OOo application? mba? thb?
The discussion in this issue has moved away. Whether the hybrid editing feature is bound to the extension or not does not solve the usability problems reported here. And the task to decide is one for someone else, not for me. So could we please move this discussion elsewhere?
I have filed Issue 98564 which is about moving Hybrid-PDF into the OOo build.
Reset assigne to the default "issues@openoffice.apache.org".