Issue 1307 - Make /net the default (and only) installation option
Summary: Make /net the default (and only) installation option
Status: CLOSED DUPLICATE of issue 1940
Alias: None
Product: Installation
Classification: Application
Component: ui (show other issues)
Version: 633
Hardware: All All
: P3 Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: falko.tesch
QA Contact: issues@www
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: 4490
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Reported: 2001-07-23 19:54 UTC by issues@www
Modified: 2003-12-06 14:52 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: ENHANCEMENT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


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Description issues@www 2001-07-23 19:54:47 UTC
The subject of making /net the default installation setting was discussed on the
discuss mailing list last week.  (see the "why /net is needed" thread, from the
middle of July).

Basically, to summarize, nearly everyone (please read the archives, don't take
my word for it!) agreed that the current "/net" install was non-optimal.  I
suggested removing it altogether, and making the default behavior be a "/net"
install.  S. Vesik suggested having a radio button in the installation program
that would allow you to choose a "/net" installation or not.  He was also afraid
that OOo would lose some functionality by removing /net, that people may get
confused by the effect of having (or not) a common location for the config
files.  (Sander, I hope I summarized your points well).

I realize now that this discussion probably should have been occuring here,
which is why I opened this issue.

It seems to me that the only difference between a "/net" install and a
"non-/net" install is whether the configuration files are installed within the
directory structure of the program files (as in the case of a "non-/net"
install), or the config files are stored seperately from the application files
(as in a "/net" install).

My thesis is the following.  If we default to a "/net" install always, we can
have both behaviors (location of config files relative to apps) in a natural and
simple manner.  When you install OOo, have it always do a /net install.  Then,
you would always have to run "setup" to build your config files.  If you
performed both steps as the same user, and choose to install OOo into
~/openoffice6, you will have your config files and apps in the same location. 
If you installed OOo as a privileged user and then run setup as a different
user, you will have the apps and config files separate.

This is the way most all other applications work, and it would make OOo's
installation much simpler.  In fact, I don't think any of this really needs to
be explained to people.  They simply choose where to install the apps, and the
rest falls out as a natural consequence of that choice.

For example: if I want to install Mozilla for my own personal use, I install it
into ~/mozilla.  I don't need to talk to the sysadm of the system, and I have
complete control of the application.  If I want to install it as a shared app
for all the users of the system, I will need to (as root) install it into
/usr/local/mozilla/ (for example) and give the users +rx access to those files.
   Then, when I run the app for the first time, it sets up my personal config
files.  It is simple, as it is the way most applications function.

Comments?
Comment 1 Olaf Felka 2001-07-24 08:21:45 UTC
Hi Falko,
some thoughts to setup.
Comment 2 falko.tesch 2001-09-17 09:56:08 UTC
To bev honest I don't see any necessity for changing this behaviour! 
Most private(!) users will not need (think of 90% Windows users!!).
And in companies I am sure that Admins are capable of using the /net 
switch per default. 
Comment 3 falko.tesch 2001-10-22 10:10:04 UTC
*** Issue 1940 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 4 jur 2001-10-22 13:14:01 UTC
falko:
you just marked my bug 1940 as a duplicate of this one. I can only
partially agree with that: I want not only to have -net as default, as
it would make things not less confusing and is simply the wrong way to
do it. I want to make it possible to switch it on and off within the
graphical installer.

I also see this bug "resolved wontfix" because of reasons which are
obviously wrong. 
1. "Most private(!) users will not need (think of 90% Windows users!!)."
This is wrong. Under Linux/Unix the usual way of installing software
is to install it as root and use it as normal user. When installed
wrong OO/SO will not start at all. 
Even under windows (even at home more user installs gets more and more
common and will show this problem.

2. "And in companies I am sure that Admins are capable of using the
/net switch per default"
In smaller companies the admin is usually just a normal user with a
bit more experience then the rest. To expect him to be able to find a
function which is hidden so well is something a user friendly program
shouldn't do. Even more advanced (and well paid) admins should not
need to spend more time with your program then necessary. To burden
those admins with a problem which simply shouldn't be there is also a
very bad idea.

Falko, we are talking here about one of SO/OOs worst usability
problems, which alone would cost SO/OO a certain percentage of users
if it survives until the final version. Therfore this bug should be a
high priority bug!! Read in the newsgroups, read in the mailing lists,
everywhere you see people stumpled over this bug.

Either you reopen my bug 1940 (recommended), or this one. Keeping it
"wontfix" is just wrong.
Comment 5 maccy 2002-04-24 12:05:44 UTC
I think almost everybody does not like the current /net issue and it
was more or less decided to change it. Users new to SO/OO will never
know how to install it the right way. This *needs* to be changed. 
Comment 6 jur 2002-04-24 12:15:05 UTC
bjoern:
I think that issue 1940 is now the bug where this stuff is handled...
Comment 7 falko.tesch 2003-09-12 11:28:28 UTC
Jens-Uwe is right. Please refer to issue 1940.

BTW, if this issue is so important as you stated, why are there nil
votes on it???


*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 1940 ***
Comment 8 jlapham 2003-09-12 14:10:51 UTC
Falko-

"BTW, if this issue is so important as you stated, why are there nil
votes on it???"

Thank you for the condescending comment.  It is so refreshing to work
with a group of professionals.  I'm realizing now that it really isn't
worth the effort to try to be involved in the OOo community.

Reread my original comment, there was a lot of effort in writing that.
  Before filing this bug there were a few long threads with many
people on the mailing list, at which time I was requested by *Sun
employees* to file a bug.  This contribution is met by Falko's two
responses, the first that this problem doesn't affect windows (there
is a world outside of MS!) users so why change, and the above quoted
gem.  Thanks again!

PS: I was just trying to help, it won't happen again.

-Jon
Comment 9 tamblyne 2003-11-01 03:57:06 UTC
.